shapechange vs true polymorph

Around a month later its going to die, but not for having 0 hit points. Wizards of the Coast LLC. (RAW). For future readers' reference: the answer to this question changed due to the 2018 PHB errata, so the existing answers here may have been rendered inaccurate by the change. RPGBOT contributing author and podcast co-host Random Powell is back with another exciting article, this time hey wait a minute, I can just write these myself. But ignoring that, if this is being treated as a replacement for wild shape, it does seem a -tad- underpowered. Immediate vagueness problems. If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. There are several things that posters in this thread don't seem to realize about True Polymorph: that would likely become a DM discretion thing. Worth noting though is that if you concentrate on it for the whole hour the spell becomes permanent until dispelled. This means that its not actually permanent and would cease in, for example, an Antimagic Field (temporarily), or if successfully targeted by a Dispel Magic. "The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies.". If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. Or at least thats what youd think, if you hadnt read this Sage Advice. @JeremyECrawford What happens if a wild shaped druid is reduced to 0 by disintegrate? The "or dies" can be applied to all creatures that are not a PC; those creatures usually die when dropped to 0 HP. by Gwain Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:22 pm, Post What are the best True Polymorph forms? - giantitp.com How does polymorph work? I think it goes off of the players total level, so in your example, they would be able to become a CR 20. depends on the DM's decision of whether they would be considered a construct or something more unique I suppose. Last Updated: April 8, 2022 Introduction The Polymorph spell is an extremely versatile and powerful tool. This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. With that said, I hope that this article helps if you are among the tiny fraction of players or DMs who ever get to cast high-level transmutation magic. True polymorph and the dragon Change Shape feature. Theres nothing really surprising here, although one thing can be a bit confusing. Like lower CRs, CR 1/4 is too weak for combat forms. I recently discovered that many people share my profound enthusiasm for turning things into other things which, combined with fantasizing about high level spells as one often does, led me to make a guide where I discussed some of the fantastic utility available using True Polymorph and Shapechange. It retains its alignment and personality. This means that when your wizard polymorphs themselves into a tyrannosaurus, their Intelligence drops from 20 to 2. The whole spell is so vaguely worded that basically any casting of it starts with an argument with your DM, so Im going to try and provide some clarity here. Its unclear what happens when you revert: has time passed for your body? What happens if I choose, for example, a golem with text in its stat block A golem cant think or act for itself? I dont have a good answer. RPGBOTis unofficial Fan Content permitted under the Fan Content Policy. That's the biggest advantage - True Polymorph can let you create a decently strong companion if you decide to turn an object into a creature. This spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points. You dont gain any Spellcasting traits, but you do gain Innate Spellcasting traits. An Answer for Everything: The 3.5 Shapechange Handbook ( direct link) 3.5 Summoned Creature SLA Lists (indexed by SLA) 2017-03-11, 03:37 AM (ISO 8601) Spoilers. The only problem I see is that some people may make druids to abuse it, just like people that made centaurs or wemics to abuse the system by wearing armour or doing things neither of those races could do. Deciding what actions the new creature takes and how it moves isnt called out as requiring any kind of action on your part, or even interaction with the creature. Thus reaching 0 HP will cause you to revert as will death. Shapechange is more of a solo-featured spell while True Polymorph can affect others in the party and allow you to change objects and creatures. Shapechange only turns you into another creature. The advice offered below is based on the current State of the Character Optimization Meta as of when the article was last updated. You can however keep using True Polymorph to turn into various creatures with spell slots, and exhaust them all. A failed save always sucks, but I'd be glad to have this up as a damage sponge if nothing else in that case (because you'd lose the concentration after taking the damage). The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it cant speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions. In theory you should last at least 3 or 4 rounds as the creature in question (if it has Legendary Resistance) and in that time, you should be able to mess some stuff up. Does that include NPCs with levels? What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? @BlueMoon93 Thanks, not sure if I can revive it; this is a good example of why it is important to avoid a link without a summary/sample of what's there. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I'll go ahead and throw my support behind this idea. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. While True Polymorph allows any creature, Polymorph only allows beasts, so this section will analyze available beast forms. RPGBOT uses the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks, which is simple to understand and easy to read at a glance. You transform into an average example of that creature, one without any class levels or the Spellcasting trait. The 3.5 Shapechange Handbook - giantitp.com We will not include 3rd-party content, including content from DMs Guild, in handbooks for official content because we cant assume that your game will allow 3rd-party content or homebrew. Per the tweet linked, it appears that both Polymorphed cretaures and Wildshaped Druids would revert, rather than turn to dust, as RAI. If this damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, it is disintegrated. Pit Fiend or a Dragon are the obvious choices. Has the cause of a rocket failure ever been mis-identified, such that another launch failed due to the same problem? One fortunate piece of clarity comes from this episode of Dragon Talk where Crawford clarifies that retain[ing] its personality and alignment means that its intended that you still understand who your friends are, even if your intelligence is now lower than the average bear. Is there anything that prevents this from working? If the spell becomes permanent, you no longer control the creature. That target almost certainly cant speak or understand speech unless its also under some other effect like Comprehend Languages. What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? All of the issue for those three spells leave the Wild Shape Druid class skill/ability open to "what level is that cast at?" Monstrous Compendium Vol 3: Minecraft Creatures. Dont expect the target to do math or make tactical decisions. Are animated things like Golems and Strangling Rugs creatures since they have stat blocks and therefore fair game, or are they magic items and therefore verboten? Speaking of, what happens if I turn someone into something with a naturally very short lifespan like a housefly? This is as a consequence of the wizard's spell level being augmented by their character level; a level 50 wizard with grandmastered polymorph and a druid with grandmastered shapechange have precisely the same duration. If I can be a golem, they dont have species so what happens there? I would personally try to fall between the two but closer to the lax end (because this is a 9th level spell and the game left the rails behind long ago at that point). Speaking of seeing the thing you intend to turn into, from the same Dragon Talk mentioned above, theres some vagueness about what seeing one actually means. This is to represent that youre turning into a normal creature of that type, not one with additional training. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious. Civility in answers is a high priority on these boards so please consider referring to content in answers rather than referring to "you people" which can be interpreted as belittling: Dropping to 0 HP won't outright kill you in all cases if you are a PC. If the same attack that causes a druid to revert from Wild Shape also reduces their maximum HP, what happens? Monsters and Death Would being ordered to fight be better or worse? Yeahhh.. What are you talking about? You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form. Once permanent, the spell is over. Should be about cr 27 if I remember correctly or atleast ancient gold dragon cr. True polymorph and the dragon Change Shape feature Boy. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The transition phase still needs a creature to make that happen. (Later printings state instead that "The spell has no effect on a shapechanger".) Are druids considered "shapechangers" and thus unaffected by the High level transmutation magic offers some of the most tempting and easily abusable magic available. But if you save against the BW? You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so. by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:13 pm, Post You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. your normal form. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); DnD 5e New Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange, Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange DnD 5e. I'd be more interested in being able to shape change into a Adult Bronze Dragon. or, if we were in the ocean. a leviathan good god this would be epic, As I am reading it - rules as written - at level 17, when you can gain access to this spell, you could Shapechange into"any" Adult Dragon (assuming you had seenthe type of dragon before). The druid turns to dust, since the spell disintegrates you the instant you drop to 0 hit points. The short answer is that I have no idea, but I can make some suggestions. The target is Disintegrated/Dust, because this specific case of "reducing to 0 hit points" due to this spell is unique to this spell effect, versus the general case of what happens when a creature is reduced to 0 hit points. Fortunately, Crawford specified that you cant. Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange - DnD 5e * (a drop of mercury, a dollop of gum arabic, and a wisp of smoke). If you transform into a Marilith, you can still speak and have hands to make Somatic gestures for those types of spells. Polymorph, Shapechange, and Wildshape- D&D Spell and Class - YouTube Can you only turn into the age category of Brass Dragon that you, personally, have seen? True Polymorph, Dragon Change Shape, and True Sight interaction Xeviat Hero Nov 13, 2020 #13 Would it be possible to only half transform into a monster? You also need to actually use True Polymorph- the 9th level spell- to turn into an Archmage. @Orethalion When exactly does a concentration spell end from casting another one? So a brass dragon cannot change shape into a lich. You decide what action it takes and how it moves. Hex and Polymorph/ShapeChange. You, however, lose your own features and spells, and (arguably, although there isn't any rule specifying this) you'd be limited to casting non-concentration spells because technically you're concentrating on True Polymorph. You get the same benefits of Polymorph but there are a few key additions: 1) You can cast spells and still use your race and class features if your new form lets you. DnD 5e - New Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange Just because your character knows the hand wiggles and latin necessary for casting Wish does not mean that your assumed form has the wellspring of power within to be able to make it happen, any more than if you taught the components to a random farmer. You can however keep using True Polymorph to turn into various creatures with spell slots, and exhaust them all. shapechange vs true polymorph - CDL Technical & Motorcycle Driving School Keep in mind that nothing prevents the wizard from making his clone in case he dies while in his TP form. The creatures statistics become those of the object, and the creature has no memory of time spent in this form, after the spell ends and it returns to its normal form. result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to You can turn an object into any kind of creature, as long as the creatures size is no larger than the objects size and the creatures challenge rating is 9 or lower. Boolean algebra of the lattice of subspaces of a vector space? So I could choose brass dragon, but then what age category am I? Justice is not neccesarily honourable, it is a tolerable business, in essence you tolerate honour until it impedes justice, then you do what is right. Your culture? The 4th level spell, Polymorph, explicitly only allows turning into beasts. The Disintegrate result overwrites the "fall unconscious" effect for the targeted creature. If the Power Word Kill spell is cast on a Polymorphed creature, what happens? An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. You lose too much. The ability is usable a few times per day, but it is based. One amusing thing you may have noticed that you cant do with True Polymorph is turn objects into other objects. Are DMs table ruling around the constitution saves required after taking a hit with an active concentration spells? Well, no. (That's powerful magic). It does mean you dont get the full benefit out of, for example, Shapechanging into a pit fiend and using the Charisma of 24 to power your Bard spells, although thats still a very good idea since they can clearly speak and have hands for somatic components on top of a pile of other great benefits. You turn back into a lvl 17+ Wizard. Choose one creature or nonmagical object that you can see within range. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed. The creature is friendly to you and your companions. When an Adult Gold Dragon changes into an Archmage, what are its saving throw and skill bonuses? A level 50 druid with 10 skill in shapechange obtains 2/3 of the duration as a level 50 wizard with 10 skill in polymorph. The GM determines whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature's shape and size. Giving this some more thought is certainly more I'd like to see, along with everyones, The third problem is skill ups. The creature can't be a construct or an undead, and you must have seen the sort of creature at least once. What about if you change it in ways that dont damage the product though? The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. You always have to use the material component, rather than just a focus, if the material component has a cost; not only when it's consumed by the spell. The tweet favors the "specific" of polymorph/Wild Shape/Shapechange/True Polymorph, rather than the specific of disintegrate, requiring the exhaustion of both HP pools before being turned to dust by that spell. At level 20, the best you can hope for is an Ancient White or Brass Dragon as the rest have a challenge rating of 21+ and that gets into "epic levels" (assuming any DMs use that kind of 21+ progression). Would that then let it take priority? The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the new form. Creature into Creature. Shapechange gives more cheesy options, like a Pit Fiend bladesinging, with shield spell mastery. If the null hypothesis is never really true, is there a point to using a statistical test without a priori power analysis? However, if the target within the antimagic field hits 0 hit points, or otherwise dies, the effect of True Polymorph would end should their body be removed from the antimagic field. you arent knocked unconscious. You do not get the chance at a death saving throw, nor to stabilize in the disintegrate case. Disintegrate and Polymorph both have effects that happen when the subject is reduced to 0 hit points. In discussing this with Tyler, his answer was to lean heavily on the word kind. To him, kind meant species as defined by taxonomical classification, so I could choose to make you a human or a pit fiend, but not the Diviner stat block from Volos. You go to the 0 HP rule if you are a PC. Don't know why I didn't process the 'truesight' reference in the spell description and assumed it was complete/redundant. When true polymorphed creature dies, does it revert to its original form? rev2023.5.1.43405. When you transform, you choose whether your equipment falls to the ground, merges into the new form, or is worn by it. How are polymorph and shapechange different? : r/dndnext - Reddit You decide what action it takes and how it moves. by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:00 am, Post It acts on each of your turns. 1.0, How to break the game with Animal Messenger (starting at level 3), AMFES: Summer 2, Now with Digital Tokens Included, 2020 Holiday Ornament and Black Friday Sale, If this is your first visit, be sure to If you turn a creature into another kind of creature, the new form can be any kind you choose whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the targets (or its level, if the target doesnt have a challenge rating). You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form. What happens when a Polymorphed creature is reduced to 0 HP by Hex and Polymorph/ShapeChange - Warlock - Class Forums - D&D Beyond It seems valid to rule that disintegrate overrides the transitional form because it also destroys all non-magical equipment. Worn equipment functions as normal. Per @Airatome's comment on Mr Crawford's tweet: I can't find a way to bring up the ENTIRE conversation, but it was noted this applies to Polymorph target's as well. You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. Thus, overpowered. You could see it as one of two things, though they both have very similar end results: a) The body simply disintegrates, and stays that way. My bad on this one, I set the wizard testing polymorph to the wrong skill level. The spell lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. Now, if we again look to the specifics of this spell versus True Polymorph, then this would seem to imply that, given that you cant use lair or legendary actions when you Shapechange, you can when you True Polymorph. Alright, so this means that, if you have any equipment you really care about, youre going to want to keep yourself to medium size and probably humanoid-ish. Random Powell. Does the Way of the Long Death monk's Mastery of Death feature protect against the Disintegrate spell? Can True Polymorph create creatures with the Spellcasting feature? The only catch is that you can't regain HP this way - if you shapechange into a new form (not the initial casting) that has higher HP than what you're currently changed as, you keep the same HP. Got to agree, thanks for that. What, that guy? You are using an out of date browser. Switch from a Marilith to a Planetar for that sweet, sweet healing, then into something else if you want to. Shapechange no longer becomes "change shape each round" but rather "keep your mind and change into a new shape". ), its going to behave differently. Shapechange states that you turn into a typical example of the creature withoutthe Spellcasting trait, but Crawford has confirmed on twitter that you would keep your ability to cast your own spells because that comes from your class features. Well-treated is entirely culture dependent. Just transmute a sufficiently large rock into a brontosaurus, then transmute that into, if Ive done my math right, roughly 100,000 pounds of diamond. As written, I can polymorph a sufficiently large rock into a Drider, Plane Shift it to the Demonweb Pits, and then have it run up and try to attack Lolth while I sit safely at home. You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. dnd 5e - Can a polymorphed creature use class features that don't Can you get infinite spells through True Polymorph and Change Shape? Wizard. well that depends .. there are 2 cr 30 monsters tarrasque avarage on attacks is 24 28 32 so dc 12 14 16 all almost guaranteed pass with the stat you mentiond. Being hungry, and animal stuff, I dont know. It retains its alignment and personality. The doppelganger can use its action to polymorph into a Small or Medium, What source is that? As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you arent knocked unconscious. Jeremy Crawford confirmed that you are still yourself. Fully open to DM interpretation and therefore argument. Remember from way up at the beginning that you cant transform the target into a magical object, so no you cant turn someone into a Sphere of Annihilation. Mearles has stated time and time again his responses is how *he* would rule it. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the chosen creature, though you retain your alignment and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Retweet 3:10 PM - 17 Sep 2015. The creature cant be a construct or an undead, and you must have seen the sort of creature at least once. A difficult CR. ok, yep, so the definitions of Truesight and True Seeing are different. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. CR 0 has better scout and disable forms, and nothing here is useful as a combat form. Some will argue that this would move the "balance" in the direction of "unbalanced" or "too powerful." True Polymorph only lets you use the abilities of the thing you change into and you lose your race and class features while transformed. Use In-Game Forum commands to activate your forum account, It is currently Mon May 01, 2023 11:12 pm, We can put them in a helpfile and also keep them available on the, Time for the ability/skill should be increased. The Polymorph spell is an extremely versatile and powerful tool. We'll look into beefing up shapechange vs. polymorph at that time. For example, if you transformed into a Drow Matron Mother, you would not gain access to her ability to cast spells or her spell list - you'd still have your own spells and spell slots, however. Do Wild Shaped druids or polymorphed creatures count as "shapechangers JavaScript is disabled. It only takes a minute to sign up. Your DM will probably be interested to hear what the dev had to say on this. But you would still be an "average example of the creature". Theres no right answer here. I assume that means that allies are still allies, and enemies are still enemies. Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News, Wildshape Interactions with Weird Racial Features, Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. You need to look carefully at what you choose, but most high-level things have Innate and not regular so expect to be able to use everything unless you are, for instance, looking at the Diviner stat block. Now, in terms of power, neither True Polymorph nor 5e's version of Shapechange hold a candle to Wish. This is just not included for no particular reason, so if you want to turn a boulder into diamonds it needs to go through the intermediate step of being a Brontosaurus as described above. Which are the best True Polymorph forms to cheese this spell? Was Aristarchus the first to propose heliocentrism? That being said, as the above poster said, you are using the save of the new form, so just make sure whatever form you are shifting into has a high con and go wreak havoc on your enemies.Also, point of note, just change into a dragon of Legendary status.

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